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Date:	12/27/99 11:11:52 AM Pacific Standard Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Monday, December 27 1999     Volume 1999 : Number 1586<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Drawing Program<BR>
Re: Hiding education :was Geographical idiocy...<BR>
RE: High vs Low Automation<BR>
Re: Free Trade<BR>
Re: T4: Cluster Skills<BR>
Re: Re BG<BR>
RE: advertising jingles<BR>
Re:  AuricTech Large Freightliner for T4 (longish)<BR>
Re: advertising jingles<BR>
RE: High vs Low Automation<BR>
Re: China and Terran polities<BR>
Pictures, Yes!<BR>
Emperor Norton, and Ob: Trav!<BR>
Re: in jokes<BR>
Re: Canada (with an ObTrav<BR>
Re: in jokes<BR>
Re: in jokes<BR>
Re: in jokes<BR>
Re: in jokes<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 01:25:19 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Drawing Program<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> wrote in message<BR>
news:991225.150455.8p2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com...<BR>
> In mail you write:<BR>
><BR>
> > Good point Leonard, but by the time I even knew what OS/2 was or could<BR>
> > afford to buy an operating system, it was already dead and buried.<BR>
<BR>
Gee, he must have only just learned what an operating system is then. I<BR>
wonder why he knows about Amiga, seeing as they died long before OS/2....<BR>
<BR>
> Funny, IBM still sells it.<BR>
<BR>
Not to the public.<BR>
They will sell it to existing users that require new licences, but it is not<BR>
commercially available anymore.<BR>
<BR>
> Though you'd have the devil's own time<BR>
> finding out, since they were silly enough to agree to a contract for<BR>
> Win 98 that required them to quite advertising OS/2 (not that their<BR>
> advertising had been all that great).<BR>
<BR>
IBM dropped sales support for Merlin ( V4.0) well before Win 98 was released<BR>
mainly because the lab that developed it was no longer interested in it.<BR>
There was some rumours that IBM Australia's Global Services division was<BR>
gong to pick it up because of a few OS/2 enthusiasts there, but after Lotus<BR>
dropped support for it, even IBM weren't going to be able to use it<BR>
internally anymore,<BR>
<BR>
> I really do enjoy watching Windows apps crash and burn and being able<BR>
> to handle the situation by merely closing the window they were running<BR>
> in.<BR>
<BR>
You can do the same in NT  to OS/2 and Windows apps<BR>
<BR>
> Alas, the last couple of versions of Win32 have been made<BR>
> *deliberately* incompatible with OS/2.<BR>
<BR>
Not actually true, Leonard.<BR>
<BR>
The reason they don't work with OS/2 is the crappy implementation of OS/2s<BR>
support for Windows<BR>
Read Andrew Shulman's articles on the subject in Dr. Dobbs  for details, but<BR>
basically, the OS/2 executive patched the live copy of win.exe on the fly<BR>
(in memory) to get it to work under OS/2<BR>
<BR>
Obviously, this means that even a recompile of  win.exe, let alone an actual<BR>
rewrite could break OS./2 's support for it<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 23:01:40 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Hiding education :was Geographical idiocy...<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Douglas E. Berry <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Friday, December 24, 1999 8:54 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: Hiding education :was Geographical idiocy...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> At 01:49 PM 12/24/1999 +1000, you wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> >I personally like "The Ballad of Magellan"<BR>
><BR>
> Seen the episode where Yakko sings the Oxford English Dictionary?<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Was that the one he did in several parts?  I think that is on the CD too?<BR>
But I still love "The Ballad of Magellan" :^)<BR>
<BR>
- -- The Roc<BR>
     (Who also likes "The Panama Canal" and, for some reason, "Lake<BR>
Titicaca" because I really like saying it's name! ;)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 13:37:26 -0000<BR>
From: "Mark Preston" <mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: RE: High vs Low Automation<BR>
<BR>
I'd love to snip the original down, but it would lose the sense of<BR>
what I'm replying to - since I'm going to get a bit technical about<BR>
Virus, Windows and Linux.<BR>
<BR>
DOS - an IBM operating system that was the *second* system of choice<BR>
(the owners of first choice CP/M failed to turn up on time for the<BR>
sales meeting) was and is a system achieving automation by batch files<BR>
that can chain together simple commands. Why *is*? Because it is<BR>
*still* the basis of Windows and you will find it buried even in<BR>
Windows 98 (although better burried in Windows NT). Automation was<BR>
then 'improved' by building API (programming interfaces) to mimic<BR>
these simple commands. That allowed you to add bi-blitting to control<BR>
drawing windows on screen as well. Result - "the most complex and<BR>
least clearly understood single system in the history of mankind"<BR>
(Linus Torvalds).<BR>
<BR>
Linux - a simplified version of the Unix operating system was built as<BR>
a college project to make building similar batch files to those in DOS<BR>
both easier and more powerful. Essentially, it still works the same<BR>
today, replacing the idea of an API by the ability to link together<BR>
different sorts of batch controls by sending the output of one as the<BR>
input to another. Hence the proliferation of batch languages such as<BR>
Perl / CGI and, indeed, the birth of the Internet itself. Windows<BR>
could *never* have created or supported the birth of the Internet.<BR>
<BR>
Now imagine the systems in a starship. Like Linux, they may all be<BR>
doing different things, but they can talk to each other using, let's<BR>
say, a super form of HTML. Each chip does its thing and passes the<BR>
results on to other chips in this super language. Cymbeline chips<BR>
include a mass of different types that can do different jobs. For<BR>
instance, one might take navigation tables and whatever the navigation<BR>
system is trying to do always passes on the co-ordinates of Cymbeline<BR>
as its own result, so an infected ship will head for Virus-infected<BR>
space. Another might work in the sensor section and always returns one<BR>
of two results - friend or foe - while a third sends a signal from<BR>
active sensors that can be recognised as a 'friend' signal by Virus<BR>
chips. So how do Vampire ships behave? Well, it depends on what type<BR>
of chip infects each ship and how they interact with each other. You<BR>
could even have ships that send the 'friend' signal but don't have<BR>
anything to read it, so the sensor chips return 'foe' for every ship<BR>
they evern meet - everyone playing TNE must have run a game with a<BR>
rogue Vampire like this, but there are hundreds of other<BR>
possibilities.<BR>
<BR>
What we are looking at is *high* automation with *low* individual<BR>
functionality - an unusual idea at the moment, but one I feel is most<BR>
likely to yield good results. For references, look into modern UK<BR>
robotics (not US or Japanese) and the Forest of Sensors (FOS) work<BR>
done in the States. And remember - *no amount* of system programming<BR>
could "cure" a Virus infected ship if they work like this.<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Sent: 24 December 1999 23:34<BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Subject: High vs Low Automation<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
On 12/24/99 at 05:44 PM,  "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net><BR>
said:<BR>
<BR>
>ObTrav: I dunno, this looks more like a religious argument ...<BR>
imagine a<BR>
>riot in 1107 between the Apostles of Bill and the Lords of Linus or<BR>
>something. Christopher Stasheff had a religious order of "St Cathode<BR>
of<BR>
>Vidicon" or some such in some of his books.<BR>
<BR>
Being slightly fanciful, I liken it to pre-Virus and post-Virus<BR>
systems.<BR>
<BR>
Pre-Virus, ie Windows, was almost fully automated and just about<BR>
*anyone*<BR>
could push a few buttons, tell the computer where they wanted to go<BR>
and it<BR>
would take them there.  You concentrated on *where* you wanted to go<BR>
and<BR>
*what* you'd do when you got there. You didn't need to worry much<BR>
about<BR>
*how* you got there.  Very convenient, but whoa is you if the system<BR>
crashes, because you really don't know how it works and your idea of<BR>
fixing it is to reinstall everything.<BR>
<BR>
Post-Virus, ie DOS/Linux, was much less automated.  The user had to<BR>
interact much more with the systems, telling what, where and how to do<BR>
everything.  Sure everything is harder and often takes longer the<BR>
first<BR>
time, but if you can learn it you end up with a lot more control and<BR>
can<BR>
often find a way to make things work even when things go badly wrong.<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- --<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 00:52:45 +1100<BR>
From: David Healey <dhealey@giant.net.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Free Trade<BR>
<BR>
On 25/12/99, Steve Hudson said :<BR>
<BR>
>>From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com><BR>
>>Subject: Free Trade (Was  America, as seen by a Canadian)<BR>
>...<BR>
>>Don't get me started on agricultural exports.<BR>
><BR>
>  Allow me to guess that you don't subsidize production anywhere near <BR>
>as much as the EU or the US, right?  :(<BR>
<BR>
Subsidised production ?  Yeah, we subsidise imports in an attempt to kill<BR>
the domestic industry.  "It's good for the economy !"<BR>
<BR>
The current governments' policy is to eliminate all tariffs on all imports<BR>
in the very near future.<BR>
<BR>
>  I don't recall anything from CT that stated a restriction of the listed<BR>
>sorts of tactics amongst worlds (and mega-corps) of the Imperium.<BR>
<BR>
I could certainly see Megas 'encouraging' individual systems in the right<BR>
direction, ie : theirs.  Not that that has ever happened in the past.<BR>
<BR>
Dave<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 10:45:53 -0500<BR>
From: Thad Coons <Sapience@compuserve.com><BR>
Subject: Re: T4: Cluster Skills<BR>
<BR>
Mike Wittek wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Hello Again All;<BR>
>If a character rolls a cluster group, does the player have to<BR>
>roll or choose the sub skill out of the cluster, or do they get<BR>
>all the sub skills?<BR>
<BR>
I've always interpreted it that they may chose one skill out of<BR>
the cluster group. This gives the player a little bit more<BR>
flexibility in character generation than rolling them. Most<BR>
certainly they should not get all the skills in the cluster at<BR>
once, unless you're creating a superhero.<BR>
<BR>
 <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 10:38:56 -0500<BR>
From: "Garry Ward" <Garry.E.Ward@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Re BG<BR>
<BR>
First; just in case, a short apology: just upgraded my internet services,<BR>
and I hope properly configured Internet Explorer to not hang any funny crap<BR>
on the back of messages:<BR>
<BR>
According to the Battlestar Galactic plans I got some years back (packaged<BR>
like the original Star Trek plans), a viper is 28 feet long, about 16 feet<BR>
wide (lower wing tip to lower wing tip), and 12 feet tall (lower wing tip to<BR>
"rudder tip"). According tothe plans, the stage for a single Viper launch<BR>
bay was 28 feet wide. The "launch tube" frames were 14 feet tall & 27 feet<BR>
wide.  This would make each of the launch bays on the side of the wings just<BR>
under 10 meters by 5 five meters.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: William F. Hostman <aramis@gci.net><BR>
To: traveller@mpgn.com <traveller@mpgn.com><BR>
Date: Sunday, December 26, 1999 7:00 PM<BR>
Subject: Re BG<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>>I'd have to say that *does* seem to be in range. If you've ever seen a<BR>
>>model of the Galactica, it's *huge*, (around a meter long), and the<BR>
>>landing bays are only a few mm tall. (if that)<BR>
>><BR>
>>> BTW, what TL is the BSG universe?<BR>
>><BR>
>>What TL are "force fields" that can acts as airlocks and helmet<BR>
>>faceplates?<BR>
><BR>
>Looking at the model I keep near the computer.<BR>
>Length of model of Galactica:  44.5 cm (from box)<BR>
><BR>
>using the ruler on my leatherman for these:<BR>
>Aft bay opening 5mm x 17mm<BR>
>fore bay opening 3.5x12mm<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 09:54:03 -0600<BR>
From: "Moody, Danny M." <DMoody@bridge.com><BR>
Subject: RE: advertising jingles<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: Glenn Goffin [mailto:gmgoffin@yahoo.com]<BR>
> >Not *yet* <BR>
> >That is a challenge folks.. let's hear some<BR>
> >advertising jingles for Famile Spofulam or General <BR>
> >Products.<BR>
> <BR>
> Gen'ral Products, Gen'ral Products,<BR>
> Gen'ral all the way<BR>
> Oh what fun it is to buy<BR>
> General Products all day!<BR>
> <BR>
> why am I doing this?  I'm probably the least<BR>
> musically-inclined member of the list.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
SayBoom products are the best<BR>
Look delicious on your vest.<BR>
Serve them to unwanted guests;<BR>
Stuff the mattress with the rest!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
 -- vargr1                                              UPP-8D9B85 --<BR>
The three principle virtues of a good programmer   | dmoody@bridge-dot-com<BR>
 are Laziness, Impatience, and Hubris.             | vargr1@jcn1-dot-com<BR>
             ** Omnia dicta fortiora, si dicta latina. **           <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 07:14:08 -0900<BR>
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re:  AuricTech Large Freightliner for T4 (longish)<BR>
<BR>
Black ICE <wombat@premier.net> wrote<BR>
<BR>
> Here's the AuricTech take on the large freightliners that are the<BR>
> lifeblood of Imperial trade.  It's 20,000 dtons, Jump-2, and TL-12. <BR>
> BTW, according to the Akins spreadsheet ver. 3.2, it makes an annual<BR>
> profit of over MCr 26, at 80% capacity.<BR>
<BR>
> Cost: 4088.231 MCr   (Cost Multiplier .8 for standard design)<BR>
<BR>
At a cost of MCr 4088 a return of MCr<BR>
26 per year is less than 0.64 %.<BR>
Even in the Imperium you can do a lot <BR>
better than that. The question becomes<BR>
what kind of returns can you get if<BR>
you are 85, or 90, or 95% full {and<BR>
how realistic are these projections)?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 11:11:18 -0500<BR>
From: "Josh W. Spencer" <macmanjws@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Re: advertising jingles<BR>
<BR>
On 12/27/1999 10:54, Moody, Danny M. wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>> -----Original Message-----<BR>
>> From: Glenn Goffin [mailto:gmgoffin@yahoo.com]<BR>
>>> Not *yet* <BR>
>>> That is a challenge folks.. let's hear some<BR>
>>> advertising jingles for Famile Spofulam or General<BR>
>>> Products.<BR>
>> <BR>
>> Gen'ral Products, Gen'ral Products,<BR>
>> Gen'ral all the way<BR>
>> Oh what fun it is to buy<BR>
>> General Products all day!<BR>
>> <BR>
>> why am I doing this?  I'm probably the least<BR>
>> musically-inclined member of the list.<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> SayBoom products are the best<BR>
> Look delicious on your vest.<BR>
> Serve them to unwanted guests;<BR>
> Stuff the mattress with the rest!<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> -- vargr1                                              UPP-8D9B85 --<BR>
> The three principle virtues of a good programmer   | dmoody@bridge-dot-com<BR>
> are Laziness, Impatience, and Hubris.             | vargr1@jcn1-dot-com<BR>
> ** Omnia dicta fortiora, si dicta latina. **<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
You don't necessarily need to have a jingle to sell products. Purina's<BR>
current Puppy Chow ad in the USA, which shows the puppy carrying around<BR>
large tree branches and (eventually) the boy makes me think of a product<BR>
which probably exists in the OTU...<BR>
<BR>
VARGR CHOW! Made by whatever company is the 57th century descendant of<BR>
Purina. Uses the same foodstuffs as Puppy Chow.<BR>
Imagine a Vargr character getting ahold of this stuff.<BR>
<BR>
VARGR: "Say what's this?" [PICKS UP BOWL OF PUPPY CHOW FROM DECK]<BR>
HUMAN: "Oh, we hope you're not offended, but we used to have a dog aboard<BR>
our ship before the Zhos killed him. We haven't bothered to get rid of his<BR>
stuff or food."<BR>
VARGR: [SNIFFS, then TASTES] "DON'T! This stuff is GREAT! Where can we get<BR>
more?"<BR>
<BR>
I don't think it'd work for the Aslan though...:) :)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Josh W. Spencer (macmanjws@earthlink.net)<BR>
Ypsilanti, Michigan, USA<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 11:16:06 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Robert Conley <estar@toolcity.net><BR>
Subject: RE: High vs Low Automation<BR>
<BR>
I envision the software situation in the 3I being very diverse. What makes<BR>
it works is common protocols of communictions. Something like HTTP,<BR>
TCP/IP, COM, CORBA, etc. The Binary files and the OS they run under can be<BR>
complete different but they communicate a common language.<BR>
<BR>
In the pre virus universe all this communication took place seamlessly.<BR>
In the post virus universe the communication was broken up. Instead the<BR>
operator took a image of the 'packet' and manually inserted into the<BR>
receiving machine. As if you downloaded a website via http onto a floppy,<BR>
inserted into a decicated virus checker before putting on a another<BR>
(separate computer) computer to be processed.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 11:36:12 -0500<BR>
From: "David L. Pulver" <dlpulver@kos.net><BR>
Subject: Re: China and Terran polities<BR>
<BR>
At 12:04 AM 12/27/99 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
>From: Kyle Schuant <kyle3054@yahoo.com><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>I'd be very interested in learning, not debating, but<BR>
>learning more of Chinese culture and history. Looking<BR>
>at current events, at their space program<BR>
<BR>
For Chinese space program, I recommend the "Go Taikonauts!" web page put up<BR>
by software engineer Chen Lan:<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Launchpad/1921/index.htm<BR>
<BR>
This will give you historical data, news, and lots of names for Chinese<BR>
space scientists, lauch vehicles, programs, satellites, and corporations,<BR>
which can be appropriated for naming future space stations, spacecraft<BR>
classes, corporations, etc.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
 _____________________________________________________________________<BR>
     David L. Pulver -- Senior Staff Writer and Assistant Line Editor,<BR>
		     Guardians Of Order Incorporated<BR>
 Big Eyes, Small Mouth * Sailor Moon * Dominion Tank Police * Tenchi Muyo! RPG<BR>
             dlpulver@kos.net  http://www.guardiansorder.on.ca<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 11:25:27 -0500<BR>
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com><BR>
Subject: Pictures, Yes!<BR>
<BR>
Doug Berry puts forth into the ether:<BR>
 >We actually went out and found Norton's grave last week.. want the pictures?<BR>
<BR>
Yes.<BR>
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eclipse@ultranet.com http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/  Opinions Mine!<BR>
"Meatspace" - The physical world (as opposed to the virtual world), also<BR>
"carbon community."<BR>
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 08:54:25<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Emperor Norton, and Ob: Trav!<BR>
<BR>
This is what I think about while driving to pick people up...<BR>
<BR>
This idea would work best on a world somewhere between Sylea and Terra in<BR>
Milieu:0.<BR>
<BR>
After arriving at this world, the characters are greeted by an elderly man<BR>
decked out in the most outrageous uniform they've ever seen.  Covered with<BR>
medal and ribbons, the ensemble is topped of by a huge hat, with even more<BR>
ribbons.  The man wearing the outfit politely greets the party, inquires as<BR>
to how their voyages have been, and wanders off.<BR>
<BR>
If the players inquire about the man, the locals will laugh and tell them<BR>
that it's only "Max, Emperor of Mankind and Lord of the Vilani Peoples".<BR>
About fifteen years ago, just after the system had regained starflight,<BR>
they found a lifeboat in orbit around a nearby star.  Max was the sole<BR>
occupant, and had been there for some time.  When revived, the long cold<BR>
sleep had affected his mental abilities.<BR>
<BR>
Max decided he was Emperor, and put together his uniform.  He's harmless,<BR>
the locals will tell the party, and gets all his food and shelter for free.<BR>
 He's also a spry old man, and has several children from various working<BR>
girls (contraception is taboo here).  Max spends his days wandering about,<BR>
inspecting his "holdings", holding court on street corners, and greeting<BR>
strangers.<BR>
<BR>
The Truth:<BR>
<BR>
Max is Maximillian Aello Hiroshi IV, Emperor of all Mankind and Protector<BR>
of the Vilani People.<BR>
<BR>
During the Twilight Period, Max was one of many people to seize the crown<BR>
(or a part of it anyway) and declare himself Emperor.  Max did better than<BR>
most.  He was travelling to a summit with other "Emperors" to attempt to<BR>
stabilize the region when his ship was attacked.  The Emperor was placed in<BR>
a lifepod that was set in orbit for later retrieval.  No one survived to<BR>
set up the rescue party.  So Max slept on.<BR>
<BR>
What makes this story more than a nice bit of history is where Max's ROM<BR>
was:  Max made his capital on Sylea, which means that he is the man that<BR>
Strephon invoked to gain legitimacy for the Third Imperium.  Max and his<BR>
kids, should the truth be uncovered, would be a thorny problem for the<BR>
Imperium.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry   Templar Agent at Large.<BR>
gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html<BR>
<BR>
TravGeekCode: <BR>
tc+ tm+ !tn- t4@ ?tg+ tt@ to(CORPS)++ ru@ $ge++ 3i<BR>
ii+ au st+ ls+ pi kk+ so(++) va++ dr+ zh+ sw++ ?da<BR>
         <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 13:11:12 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: in jokes<BR>
<BR>
From: Douglas E. Berry <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> No evidence that His Majesty was actually a Mason,<BR>
<BR>
Actually, in the days when he was a mere rich businessman and landowner he<BR>
was a Mason. He was booted out when he became too poor to pay the dues.<BR>
<BR>
>but he did print his own money (you can see some of it at City Hall),<BR>
>and the local Masons paid for his burial.<BR>
<BR>
Yes, he did print his own money.<BR>
<BR>
>Close to 10,000 attended his funeral, and Mark Twain wrote<BR>
>a euolgy for him.<BR>
<BR>
I'm reasonably sure that Twain didn't eulogize him, however Twain *did*<BR>
write a wonderful obituary for one of the dogs which Norton hated but<BR>
everyone said were his. I'm not sure whether it was Bummer or Lazarus.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 10:50:00 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Canada (with an ObTrav<BR>
<BR>
>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
I had written:<BR>
> The Darrians also provide a lot of forces.  Fifth<BR>
> Frontier War includes a TL-16 mercenary unit, which<BR>
>in my Traveller universe is a Darrian unit lent to <BR>
>the Imperium.<BR>
You replied:<BR>
>This would be somewhat akin to having a "Gulf War" TL<BR>
<BR>
>unit available in Vietnam, or a Vietnam era TL unit <BR>
>available in the Korean war. <BR>
>Not "Buck Rogers" tech, but something that'd *really*<BR>
<BR>
>make a difference in the situations where you were <BR>
>able to *use* the unit. [deletion]<BR>
<BR>
>Personally, I find 2-3 TL differences "more fun". The<BR>
<BR>
>tech isn't "magic", but it's just plain out of reach <BR>
>of the low TL side. Things like the Luftwaffe trying <BR>
>to handle SR-71 and B-52 attacks. :-)<BR>
<BR>
Me, too, for role-playing, but in the 5FW wargame, I<BR>
always use that TL 16 unit against the poor TL10-11<BR>
Sword Worlds forces, by deploying it on a world in a<BR>
system without a gas giant that the Sword Worlds have<BR>
to take to make their jump-2 route to anywhere.  (I<BR>
think it's Saurus.) It just bogs the SWs down for a<BR>
really long time and/or forces the Zhodani to send a<BR>
fleet to help the Sword Worlds, drawing strength from<BR>
their coreward front.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
_________________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 10:32:33 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: in jokes<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> The "Monarch" class Imperial battlecruiser _Norton I_ (the Bay Area<BR>
> folks should recognize this one!)<BR>
<BR>
Hell, *I* recognize it. All hail the Emperor Norton!<BR>
<BR>
> Actually, going back into the historian patron thread, a patron asking<BR>
> for assistance in researching the great Terran Emperor Joshua Norton I<BR>
> would be an amusing diversion....<BR>
<BR>
And if you are a *truly* twisted person, you can have them find source<BR>
materials. <BR>
<BR>
If don't recall if Eperor Norton ever had any children. If he did, or<BR>
you can argue convincingly that he did, but it was "kept quiet", then<BR>
have one of the ruling families being able to trace their ancestry back<BR>
to him. <BR>
<BR>
I also expect that the "official" family tree of *some* important<BR>
nobles with Solomani ancestry will include King Arthur, or Charlemagne,<BR>
if they can't find a way to get a Caesar or a Chinese Emperor in there.<BR>
:-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 10:38:01 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: in jokes<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> On 12/26/99 at 01:56 PM,  Black ICE <wombat@premier.net> said:<BR>
><BR>
>>Here are a couple I'm fond of:<BR>
><BR>
>>General Norman Schwantzkopf, Imperial Army<BR>
><BR>
> What's the English translation of Schwartzkopf?<BR>
<BR>
Blackhead?<BR>
<BR>
>>The "Monarch" class Imperial battlecruiser _Norton I_ (the Bay Area folks<BR>
>>should recognize this one!)<BR>
><BR>
> As should any Illuminati whether residing around The Bay or not. <g><BR>
<BR>
I wasn't aware that he was involved in *that*. His "real" history (if<BR>
omne can use the term "real" :-) is interesting enough.<BR>
<BR>
>>Actually, going back into the historian patron thread, a patron asking<BR>
>>for assistance in researching the great Terran Emperor Joshua Norton I<BR>
>>would be an amusing diversion....<BR>
><BR>
> Especially, if they found records providing clear evidence of his<BR>
> existance and rule of North America.  It would clearly put the game in an<BR>
> altered reality, which isn't a problem for the PC's, but the *players*<BR>
> would have to wonder what else about this universe's history doesn't match<BR>
> the preconceptions they brought to the table.<BR>
<BR>
How about the first "astronauts" being a Mr. Gordon, nicknamed "Flash".<BR>
In a ship built by Dr. Zarkov, and accompanied by both Zarkov and Dale<BR>
Arden. :-)<BR>
<BR>
Anthony "Buck" Rogers has a timeline that's just *too* different.<BR>
<BR>
But have Ming the Merciless be a misunderstood Vilani bureaucrat (or a<BR>
rogue Zhodani who misjumped into the area and started setting up an<BR>
empire) and things get interesting.:-)<BR>
<BR>
Or pick a "lesser known" future history. For example, the one from Hugh<BR>
Walters' old books. The first "man" in space is a 16 year old *boy*,<BR>
launched in a joint English/Australian vehicle (from Woomera). <BR>
<BR>
Or go with Lester Del Rey's books: "Step to the Stars", "Moon of<BR>
Mutiny" and a couple others. We first build an earth orbit space<BR>
station (classical "wheel" type) *in secret*, using a launch site in<BR>
the Pacific. We assemble and launch the first moon expedition there.<BR>
And so forth.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 10:51:04 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: in jokes<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>>General Norman Schwantzkopf, Imperial Army<BR>
><BR>
> That's not incredibly obscure.<BR>
><BR>
> The Norton I reference, OTOH, has me stumped. But then I am English.... ;-)<BR>
<BR>
An eccentric gent in the late 1800s? named Joshua Norton proclaimed<BR>
himself "Emperor Norton the First". And folks in San Francisco (which<BR>
was where he was living) went along with the gag!<BR>
<BR>
People would actually accept the money he'd printed, the newspapers<BR>
printed his "Imperial decrees", he got invited to the best parties,<BR>
etc. <BR>
<BR>
Quite an amazing social phenomenon.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 10:55:32 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: in jokes<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> >General Norman Schwantzkopf, Imperial Army<BR>
>> <BR>
>> That's not incredibly obscure.<BR>
>> <BR>
>> The Norton I reference, OTOH, has me stumped. But then I am English.... ;-)<BR>
><BR>
> Norton I, Emperor of the United States and Protector of Mexico.  <grin><BR>
><BR>
> A 'nutball' who wandered around San Francisco in the 1800s, and everybody <BR>
> around him pretended to take him seriously.  He'd eat at a restaurant<BR>
> and pay with a check written on his own (nonexistant) Imperial bank,<BR>
> and they'd *take the check*.<BR>
<BR>
Good publicity. I'm sure that if he was eating there, they'd get exytra<BR>
customers who wanted to watch. <BR>
<BR>
> Legend has it he walked into the middle of a riot once and called on the <BR>
> rioters to stop at once.  And they did.<BR>
><BR>
> Strange misunderstood fellow, our Norton...<BR>
<BR>
I get the distinct impression that if the "right" sort of circumstances<BR>
had come along, they might have actually "made" him Emperor. <BR>
<BR>
Say, the North loses the Civil War and suddenly being a US territory<BR>
doesn't look so good. I could see some political types making Norton I<BR>
a figurehead under which they can unite the West Coast, and maybe even<BR>
other territory.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1586<BR>
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